About Fournier's camera

[Sylvain Halgand]

This is not exactly the same, because the bubble is not on the same place.
On my droplate camera there is no hole of nail of a builder name plate.

[Stephen G]

Hello Sylvain
Indeed there are inconsistency's which are inherent part of hand assembled devices by small company's.
The level bubbles are also of a completely different design as mine are countersunk into the body.
You will also notice the shutter timing plate is also different.
All these small differences could possibly be attributed to supply and demand issues, improvements or even price.

The nameplate is made from celluloid but a early type as it has a high camphor content.
I first thought it might be of bone or tooth material but testing proved its compound.
It is strange that yours never had one. Maybe supply issue or even made to contract for the government?

Could I ask you to measure the box dimensions of your camera?
The one here is:
Height -18.9 cms
Width - 11 cms
Depth - 23.4 cms


Sylvains unbranded camera:


G. Fournier camera:

comp1.jpg (35.56 Kio) Vu 5582 fois

There is a manufactures stamp on the underside of the plate release mechanism. This might also hold a clue. I did search it but came up with nothing apart from a Japanese camera company founded in the 1950's. This did not make any sense so I put it down to coincidence.
I will unscrew it again and post it here as I have forgotten what it was.
Also I have never pulled the front off the camera. Clues might be found in there. I will have to do it someday as the pneumatic release has never worked.

Best wishes, Stephen.

[Stephen G]

Here is the trademark of the company who made the release mechanism. Maybe someone might have heard of them before?
Also The wedge at the back that holds the spent plates secure is of a different shape than the unbranded camera above.
Stephen.

[Eric Borel]

Hello,

and this one ? With "MS" on leather ...

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/appareils/html/detective_4.php

[Sylvain Halgand]

It was very common that this sort of name was a play on words. Elka is equal to LK.

[bernard P]

Bonsoir,

The Trademark ELKA was registered in France on December 26, 1917. No conections with G. Fournier were found yet.


172 501, 26/12/1917, NANTE (J. H.), Paris (18 rue Faraday), marque pour désigner
tous articles des classes 43 et 57, etc., ELKA

berplazo

[Stephen G]

I missed that one Eric! Yes that looks very similar. I would love to know who owns it and what the embossed emblem stands for?

Bernard! You just proved two things... My camera was built no earlier than 1917 and the original Fournier shop was still going at that date.
Any ideas what other things ELKA made?

[bernard P]

I missed that one Eric! Yes that looks very similar. I would love to know who owns it and what the embossed emblem stands for?

Bernard! You just proved two things... My camera was built no earlier than 1917 and the original Fournier shop was still going at that date.
Any ideas what other things ELKA made?

No Stephen, this was the only time I saw that and to be honest, on that day I was looking for EKA...

berplazo

[Stephen G]

I was thinking that my camera dated a bit earlier than 1917 because after reading the encyclopedia of 19th century photography by John Hannavy, falling plate cameras first appeared in the 1880's and were most popular in 1890's.
My question is - What is the latest known date of a falling plate camera? 1920's? I really have no idea.

[Sylvain Halgand]

I think the visit of Photo-Plait and Photo-Hall catalogs in this website will give a good idea.

[Sylvain Halgand]

http://www.collection-appareils.fr/ph1905/html/page_30.php 1905 ! Who say better ? I'm going to sleep.

[Stephen G]

1905 ! Who say better ? I'm going to sleep.

Ah Thanks Sylvain, That's a good start and sleep well!

I have been informed that my camera appears to be identical to the L. Korsten "Detective No 3 Perfectionné, circa 1899.
It's picture can be found on #935 in a book called Appareils Français by Francesch, Bovis, & Boucher.
I do not have this book but I'm betting a poster here has. If you do, could ask for confirmation or opinions please.
I am more than happy to post a similar composed photo for comparison.
Stephen.

[Sylvain Halgand]

Beware about this book, there is so many mistakes in. Look at : http://www.club-niepce-lumiere.org/html/errata.php to know some of them.

About Detectives, see also http://www.collection-appareils.fr/general/html/liste3_imagettes.php at "Detectives Français"

[Stephen G]

Noted and understood Sylvain.
Is there a photo of the brand plate in the book and is it in the exact same form? These are my questions now.
I see no mention of it contested at club-niepce-lumiere so I'm still hoping my search is finally over.
Stephen.

[Eric Borel]

Hello Stephen

LK for L. Korsten perhaps ?

[Stephen G]

:Hello: Hello Stephen

LK for L. Korsten perhaps ?

Perhaps your on a winner! With what Sylvian said about abbreviated names "LK" and the recent information about the brand of the camera in the same form...
Well worth looking into that!
Now why didn't I see this clue? (Stephen G fails Detective School)

[Sylvain Halgand]

I'm actually at office, I'll look for this in the book "Franscesch" this evening ( in 8 hours)

[Stephen G]

Sylvain, I am looking forward to your findings.
Are Korsten's collectible? Cant find anything on the brand or history.

[Sylvain Halgand]

Yesterday evening was a tired one. Sorry

[Stephen G]

No problem Sylvian, Take your time. It's not a life or death thing but this sort of thing fascinates me.
I am still wondering why I didn't see the ELKA - L.K thing... Eric is a legend!

[Sylvain Halgand]

Bingo !

extrait.jpg (77.89 Kio) Vu 5203 fois

[Stephen G]

Thanks Sylvain, that sure looks like mine except no bubble levels. Maybe G. Fournier attached or ordered them.
Would someone be kind enough to translate, I understand it it says came in 3 formats but the rest is confusing on translation.
I wonder what the key to the star / dot at the bottom of the picture means?
I hope I am correct in assuming the L. Korsten and Lucian Korsten of cinematographic fame are one and the same?
Stephen.

[Pierre-Yves P]

Hey Stephen,

It basically says that 3 different formats exist (you got that right), then:
Obj. rectilinéaire = rectilinear lens [dunno if you use this specific word in English - in French, it means that there is no pincushion or barrel distortion - or at least, very little.]
Obtu. à secteur circulaire = that's something about the shutter design, but I'm not even sure I understand this, sorry.
Bois gainé simili = leather-sheathed wood.

Sorry again, I don't know about the star & dot, since I don't have the book.

[Stephen G]

Thanks Pierre-Yves, The shutter is like a more contemporary SLR curtain shutter but instead of fabric, two metal curtains shoot across laterally and the gap widens for longer exposures. It has a circular hole that masks behind it if that's what they mean by "Obtu. à secteur circulaire" maybe?

rectilinéaire and rectilinear are the same and I should have worked that one out. We probably borrowed the term like allot of words between our languages.

Now the next problem is what to do a TD on... K or F?

[Sylvain Halgand]

K seems good.

May be you'll the first TD in english ? You're welcome

[Stephen G]

K it is then!
Maybe a Biligngual poster will volenteer to do the txt and I shall supply the photo?

Any estimation on the value of mine? I was thinking mine was a bit out of the ordanary.
There is a German site with online estimates. It says Korsten detectives sell between 475-550 €
http://www.photographica-world.de/k.htm
Is this an accurite and up to date price?

Stephen.

[Sylvain Halgand]

The average price for Détectives in France, is around 70/80 euros.

[Stephen G]

The average price for Détectives in France, is around 70/80 euros.

I just made about 100% profit then. He wanted 50 but took 40 euro.
Problem is, I've never been known to sell anything...